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Aleks's third year thread


26 replies to this topic

#16
Molotov

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Jesus..this is incredible! 

 

got a question though, when baking complex models like this how do you usually approach the baking? Do you bake few pieces at a time or bake it down all at once? 



#17
JansenM

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Looking great! To prevent the Z-fighting in the Maya viewport, change the camera's clipping plane settings - the near plane should be higher (maybe up to 2 or something), and the far plane lower.



#18
Moid

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In case of confusion - the far plane still needs to be a larger number than the near plane. And the values will depend on the scale of your scene - I'm guessing probably large. You can use the measure tool from your camera to just past the model to estimate a value that you can try on your far plane in your camera, but you'll want to double this so that when you scroll out to look from a distance the train model doesn't disappear.


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#19
JansenM

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Ah yes, sorry for not being specific. The far plane usually doesn't need too much adjusting - simply lifting the near up from 0 will usually do the trick. This function is telling the camera how to render polygons in respect of one another, meaning if there's a larger scale between the closest and furthest it can render a polygon, it won't have the resolution to be able to calculate their distance without the two surfaces fighting for render order priority (that's my understanding of it, at least). It's similar to having two polygons with differing textures in the exact same place, and observing the light show that occurs when the engine tries to decide which should be on top, and which should be underneath.



#20
Moid

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You don't need to apologize :) I was just clarifying what you said in case a first year was reading this and got a bit confused and then hid most of their scene by adjusting the clipping planes... one less question for Lewis to sort out in class! And you are right about the z fighting - Maya does not work with the graphics cards very well, so does not bother to store too many values that are much smaller than whole numbers, so two polygons that are close together will be considered by Maya's laughable realtime graphics as being in the same location, even though they are probably 0.05 units apart in actual space (OK this is an exaggeration, even Maya isn't this bad, but you get the idea - the idea is likely to be smaller). Also by bringing the far plane in you are using less memory to store all the z distances of objects in the scene (in a Z buffer) - if the far plane goes to 10000, then all objects need to be stored using at least five digits per transform, and even more if they don't fall exactly on whole unit numbers (which they obviously won't) and I'm not sure how many digits (before and after the decimal point) that Maya stores or sends to the graphics card's Z Buffer, but usually at some point it gives up because it needs lots of digits and just rounds them all off to the nearest value it can be bothered to store and and sends that instead - so objects that are near to each other are told that they are in exactly the same place to save Zbuffer memory, but then get drawn as the crazy flashing triangles of doooooom!

 

A few thousand years ago, when I used to make Playstation One games, we had to ensure that every object in the game level had a transform that was on a whole number for XYZ to ensure that we weren't using up any precious RAM for trivial things like being 0.5 units off in one axis or another... I don't miss those days!


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#21
ZombieDawgs

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Serious level up in here. Can't wait to see what you're making for your extended project.



#22
aleksjank

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Amazing piece, love the beautiful detail on it

 

Thank you! Hopefully bake turns out okay as well!

 

Jesus..this is incredible! 

 

got a question though, when baking complex models like this how do you usually approach the baking? Do you bake few pieces at a time or bake it down all at once? 

 

I always look for modularity in models, that saves me a lot of uv space. Those type of train cart actually look like they are made out of modular pieces IN REAL LIFE so I should be able to get quite a good quality of texture within 2 x 2K texture for the whole thing.

Like on this picture here you can see it very clearly:

P9070452.jpg?x36061

 

I'm still on the fence how much of it I wanna bake down, but considering how big the asset is (17m long), I'll have to settle for whatever is in the middle. ;)

I'm having a master class on Monday (5.15pm in 1B05) all about my uving pipeline and tips on efficent asset creation so if you fancy, come along!

 

Looking great! To prevent the Z-fighting in the Maya viewport, change the camera's clipping plane settings - the near plane should be higher (maybe up to 2 or something), and the far plane lower.

 

 

In case of confusion - the far plane still needs to be a larger number than the near plane. And the values will depend on the scale of your scene - I'm guessing probably large. You can use the measure tool from your camera to just past the model to estimate a value that you can try on your far plane in your camera, but you'll want to double this so that when you scroll out to look from a distance the train model doesn't disappear.

 

Thank you! I'll look into it!

 

Serious level up in here. Can't wait to see what you're making for your extended project.

 

Thanks!

I'm freelancing this year. I'm thinking about covering just two projects to maintain maximum quality along with my sanity but I shall see how it works out for me later in the year, I might be able to cover a third one :)


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#23
ZombieDawgs

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You might benefit from making this piece from an atlas instead of baking straight up. Or just overlap texture space a huge amount.

If you can afford a third project you should consider your own scene - it'd be a nice way for you to have a compete product.

Edited by ZombieDawgs, 07 December 2017 - 06:24 AM.


#24
aleksjank

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I am planning on overlapping uvs! Considering that most of it is gonna be modular, I am expecting some good quality bake within 2 textures.

Not sure what the first option you're proposing is tbh :<

 

I don't think I can jump onto a project at this point. I am loving freelancing and the variety it's gonna bring to my portfolio, but I totally see what you mean, I have been thinking about it as well. My plan is to make a full environment (or two, we'll see how I'll be doing time-wise) after course ends as I will be staying on campus until June or so (can't remember when does my acommodation contract ends exactly)


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#25
Soulss

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Cool stuff going on in here. 

 

For the train car, it's too large to bake it down traditionally. If this were a production asset it would probably be broken down into 3 different material ID's with tiling materials, then using different material setups to get the wear and peeling paint. Depending on what the project texel density is pretty much any space over a meter long won't use unique textures, the resolution just won't be good unless you use very large textures, which you want to avoid doing.

 

You can do things like, setup a material that uses masks created in substance painter, applied to a second UV set, that control dirt levels with a slider to make adjustments to levels. Or a color overlay setup for the paint, tied to a slider to easily change the color. Additions like that make it a much more usable asset for a level artist, as a prop that can be used multiple times with lots of variation, which as a prop artist is what you're looking to do :) So, in your portfolio you can show the different levels of dirt using your masks, which will be very impressive to the right people, and shows you are thinking about game production rather than just making it look as pretty as possible.

 

The mesh itself is too perfect. Use a little bit of geo in the low poly when you make it, to add in dents and deformation to the silhouette. If you're investing more topology into the silhouette it's usually worth it, and gives it a bit of character.

 

Keep it up, look forward to seeing how the train car turns out.


Edited by Soulss, 12 December 2017 - 09:35 PM.


#26
Soulss

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Taking another look at the model though, you do have a lot of repeated elements you could bake down that are smaller. One wheel, one metal beam, handle, bumper, step, etc etc. So you could probably use a mix of unique and tiling textures to get a good result.



#27
aleksjank

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Cool stuff going on in here. 

 

For the train car, it's too large to bake it down traditionally. If this were a production asset it would probably be broken down into 3 different material ID's with tiling materials, then using different material setups to get the wear and peeling paint. Depending on what the project texel density is pretty much any space over a meter long won't use unique textures, the resolution just won't be good unless you use very large textures, which you want to avoid doing.

 

You can do things like, setup a material that uses masks created in substance painter, applied to a second UV set, that control dirt levels with a slider to make adjustments to levels. Or a color overlay setup for the paint, tied to a slider to easily change the color. Additions like that make it a much more usable asset for a level artist, as a prop that can be used multiple times with lots of variation, which as a prop artist is what you're looking to do :) So, in your portfolio you can show the different levels of dirt using your masks, which will be very impressive to the right people, and shows you are thinking about game production rather than just making it look as pretty as possible.

 

The mesh itself is too perfect. Use a little bit of geo in the low poly when you make it, to add in dents and deformation to the silhouette. If you're investing more topology into the silhouette it's usually worth it, and gives it a bit of character.

 

Keep it up, look forward to seeing how the train car turns out.

 

thank you for the amazing feedback! not sure if I understood all of it, but I'll try finding tutorials on things you've mentioned :)

 

I'm all about optimalization, I never pack too much polys or textures into an asset if it doesn't need it. This asset is being made for Days of War and requirements are as follows: 20-30K and 2 x 2 K textures - that's more than enough. I wasn't planning on adding a colour mask, but it is a good idea, I'll look into it.

 

As for bake down, I will heavily copy stuff around (e.g. there only gonna be one wheel axis, one bumper etc.). I have a rule that if two identical elements cannot be seen at the same time (that are on opposite sides like the bumper), the share the same uvs. That applies to smaller elements as well, like you said. As for the main body, it'll be modular - I'll have parts similar to modular walls of a building and seams are gonna be hidden under the metal railing (or whatever it's called... the vertical thing packed with studs :D ). I'll bake detail down onto them in different configurations and that way I can make quite a few completely different looking trains. Now that I think of it, I can mess with smaller things like handles to add a bit more variety. Colour mask will nicely complement that as well.

I was tasked with a single train cart, it seems I'll end up handing in a whole set haha!

 

I would love to do the adjustable damage mask, but I have no idea how, I would greatly appreciate it if you have a good tutorial to recommend!

The reason I dont really add dents into the mesh itself, but I rather rely textures is because when I know is gonna be copied across a level, I dont want the repetitivity to be too obvious, especially when it comes to such large scale assets.

 

Once again, thanks a lot for your extensive reply, it's gold!






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